Tulpa.info - guide-discussion

OH HATE ME DO YOU...

Yeah The original purpose of "let's provide critique and screen out absolute shit" turns into "what! why are you critiquing me, and do you think I'm shit??"

Zen

That unironically sounds like my fetish

this is #guide-discussion

Yes. Guide Review is my fetish. Is that difficult to comprehend?

Taking effort to do something doesn't make it automatically useful, unfortunately.

I like all forms of academic review in a sexual way.

please keep sexual deviancy in their respective channels

Hey Zen have you ever thought about reviving the GAT

would it get approved?

Hahahahahah

And how would I do that? A vigilante GAT?

9:13 PM

Bah, I'm not some sort of anarchist.

Me and Ranger and Felights and more have all tried to be that person

9:14 PM

I was more optimistic a year or so ago

Zen

Bah, I'm not some sort of anarchist.

you should be

Now I laugh more

9:14 PM

At others

9:14 PM

9:15 PM

An anarchist or a GAT-embodiment?

I need to finish that article on why the GAT fell apart. The last GAT didn't know all of the problems the first one had, I feel I need to at least write out my thoughts

No you don't lol

9:16 PM

Why do you need to write an article about why it fell apart? It's just petty drama

Psh. Y'all need to read some history is what you need to do.

People were bothered by your overplanning, by my overplanning, by Felight's overplanning, and we were all overplanning shit because no one wanted to be there or do anything

Power structures are predictable.

A long kiss goodnight

I need to finish that article on why the GAT fell apart. The last GAT didn't know all of the problems the first one had, I feel I need to at least write out my thoughts

who's the target audience

Trying to organize a discord call just made it worse, no one wants to show up, no one wanted to be there, trying to assign and delegate tasks made things worse, it's just more work

Should have organised it in vrchat (edited)

9:18 PM

Everyone always shows up in vrchat

You'll get mocked and get people angry at you if you post an article that's 100% petty drama review But also, do it so I can get my amusement in

Unironically a true democracy GAT organized in vrchat might work better than an elected-position GAT.

1

The only thing that would happen when we all posted reviews was the reviewed person getting upset and saying "well I'm not changing it sooooo"

Zen

Unironically a true democracy GAT organized in vrchat might work better than an elected-position GAT.

@Ale𝕏andra 🍄🐈 patiocast is officially GAT now

1

Elected position? The only barrier to being on the GAT was not being 12 and having a pulse and being of generally positive reputation

It was still a council of individuals rather than just "whoever was there".

9:20 PM

You don't need to organize when you can just ask the people on Discord!

proxi

@Ale𝕏andra 🍄🐈 patiocast is officially GAT now

So far it hasn't even happened once almost just like GAT meetings

What are you talking about? There were 3 already

proxi

What are you talking about? There were 3 already

you've gat to stop talking about this already seriously nobody is communicating anything, what is the point

JGC

The only thing that would happen when we all posted reviews was the reviewed person getting upset and saying "well I'm not changing it sooooo"

As for this I actually think this was not in the slightest the problem. It's not a problem if people can see "oh there's all these problems with this guide" if they're valid criticisms. The guides should still ultimately be approved if the contentions don't fall into specific categories of harmful or trolling.

sh

who's the target audience

To the general public so they understand what happened, and also anyone who wanted to restart the GAT. I didn't think there would be genuine interest in the GAT, so I put it to the side.

There are a number of buried guides that result from this arbitrary selection process. When even fallacious essays should be uploaded and peer reviewed in the same area.

The issue was, we'd say "I'll approve this when you change xyz" instead of "I don't like xyz but, approved"

9:24 PM

So yeah, you ended up with a great amount of guys in pugatory

9:24 PM

Because they had no interest in revision

I was fine with my guide in purgatory, I didn't get around to revising it until later.

The GAT should filter only what they have a mandate to filter. As in "We all agree by a 75% majority that this is objectively harmful or misleading. It must be changed."

Oftentimes they were also weird as fuck reddit-level shit, I remember this one guy where half the guide was vague, directionless spiritual mumbling and then after talking about tulpamancy for a little while he completely does a 180 and goes "it's all been a lie, I was lying to you for the rest of the time and ACTUALLY it works a totally different way"

Otherwise they should be a peer-review body.

I was like, dude, that's how mystery novels work, not instructional guides

Which is a distinct and different job.

And he was like, "Well I produced the whole video series already, too late!!!!"

9:25 PM

and that was the end of that

9:26 PM

Or people who write two paragraphs full of spelling errors and we have to say "yeah no buddy"

9:26 PM

Produced a lot of resentment

9:27 PM

And it just so happens the people stupid enough to do both of those things are also the people who tend to get pissy

I feel like it shouldn't be the role of a GAT to filter for quality.

Well lol

As much as it seems common sense to do so

That's why it was invented

But to filter for quantifiable things.

9:31 PM

I would expect consensus to filter for quality by whatever means.

The tl;dr version of my thoughts on why the GAT died are the following: -We didn't know what we were doing and we built our boat as we tried to sail it. Hammer out your guide review system, policies, etc. beforehand. -Lack of communication from the staff. Even though I was staff while on the GAT, it wasn't clear what was a staff job and what was a GAT member's job. I highly recommend you meet with the staff team before moving forward with anything. -The GAT was too private. It stirred a whole bunch of unnecessary drama. Also, I refuse to entertain having a GAT that isn't extremely transparent. -Burn out. Don't expect people to show up and review every time. Don't require an arbitrary number of people to be on the GAT. Make sure those who are hungry for more work have something to do. -Allow more contribution from the general public. Maybe have a vote system or give the public some other authority. I think the GAT review system needs to be thrown out and reworked from the ground up. I'm happy to help, but beyond planning advice, I don't have time to be a GAT member right now. I haven't found the time or the motivation to finish bringing about the new system yet.

You can't qualify things from a limited sense of perspective. I feel like it's the GAT's job to provide some peer review but that it absolutely should be a tulpamancy-wide review process. At some point group intelligence is required relative to like 7 dudes with good reputations and wildly different ideas.

9:33 PM

With little input from the GAT itself, that is.

9:37 PM

I jested about becoming the new GAT, but unironically in a vaccuum I would probably arrange it more as a group consensus thing. If anything; moderators(in the debate sense) would be required for a debate structure if such a thing was done on vrchat who can authoritatively direct the flow of conversation in a back-and-forth. I would not create a closed council to quantify guides that are heavily subjective in the first place. (edited)

9:38 PM

But I would likely do so for the removal of dangerous information or trolling - Which is more of a moderation job anyway.

Consider: If the consensus on the server is that your guide sucks dick and will be relegated to a submitted-section in limbo or deleted even; That's quite a different situation than 6 specific recurrent assholes deciding your fate. Even if you end up with like six people anyway deciding your fate in the former. The issue that I can foresee arising with a pure democracy is that decisions may be overturned rapidly if a structure is not decided on beforehand to allow such a thing in a more regulated and measured way. (edited)

A long kiss goodnight

To the general public so they understand what happened, and also anyone who wanted to restart the GAT. I didn't think there would be genuine interest in the GAT, so I put it to the side.

why do you think a significant proportion of people would care about such a niche thing

Because this conversation happened

proxi

Everyone always shows up in vrchat

haha. yeah

Everyone's philosophy on what the GAT should be doing is different and overall don't like the GAT for drawing lines in the sand. In general people don't like that "bad guides" are easily accessible but also don't like being told their guide isn't good enough to be posted on the guide board either. The people who want debatable concepts to pass like parallel processing argue the GAT should only focus on grammar while those who don't want to put in the time to clean up their draft argue the GAT should focus on concepts. I don't think anyone will be happy with any system that actually does what people say they want, so instead guide curation, if it is part of the process, has to be optional instead of mandatory. Once I find the time and the motivation, I would like to finish the transition process so all of the guides can be put in the guides board except the really bad ones. I may need to rethink "really bad ones" because there was a lot of backlash against Tulpa's guide and I'm not interested in starting a witch hunt. However, I think there are good enough reasons to move Tulpa's guide to a draft board, particularly on the armchair medical advice issue. I don't know if people will like the new system or not, I would hold back on any new GAT revivals until then. What's left to do is figure out the new descriptions for the boards and if anyone would really like to see any other guides be moved to drafts (edited)

| How to make a campfire https://community.tulpa.info/topic/17269-how-to-make-a-campfire/?do=findComment&comment=347139

How to make a campfire

I guess you did your research to end up on this site, so good job. You might have tried making a campfire couple of times before to no avail, or you are just a cautious person and not trying anything new until you have a deep ubderstanding on the topic. Your reasoning does not matter, let me tell...

MonitoRSS

| How to make a campfire https://community.tulpa.info/topic/17269-how-to-make-a-campfire/?do=findComment&comment=347139

campfire?

8:58 PM

what the F (edited)

(It's a metaphor)

(ok)

12:08 AM

(i wasn't at home then, lemme read it as well)

Metaphor or not, I don't think it's that related to tulpamancy

More than a few pages seems egregious if this is not an archive. Switching isn't complicated and can be summed up succinctly and broadly fairly easily imo. It sounds like you need an editor lol.

I think this will basically end up how it did last time when I presented my guide ideas: there's not anything for you too look at yet except for the stray notes I have here and there. I have drafts for my outline, some sections, and that's about it. I don't think I'll finish this guide in years, I won't be producing a rough draft anytime soon

@A long kiss goodnight Are you going to cover the "just do it" style of switching as well? Asking because I'm curious if you had any thoughts about how to discuss that in what you're writing, because there's so little 'meat' to such methods.

2:53 PM

I was wondering if it was your intention to include those methods as well.

Yes. At some point early on, I'll explain that some people can switch after they learn possession, a lot of people pick up switching naturally, and some people need to believe switching is easy to make progress.

Ever feel as though you cannot even begin to understand where your stream of consciousness comes from? I feel like an imposter in my own mind, I don't know why or how I think or react to things at all

squints No, actually, I feel strongly grounded in self-understanding these days.

2:39 AM

And I think before I had that I wasn't really paying much attention.

I've just started noticing that my thoughts seem as though they are being determined by an unconscious part of my mind

2:46 AM

It's freaky

I've just started noticing that my thoughts seem as though they are being determined by an unconscious part of my mind

@_Dan - jump I have found that human bodies do not move through thought, rather through instinct.

Yes and no, to me. I recognize that things like intrusive thoughts and other impulsive thoughts, usually when drowsy in particular, are often quite random and out of my control. But I've also done enough hypnosis to gain some mastery over my unconscious processes. I can will certain things to happen and my brain will simply do them. Enter states of certain emotions, cause lighter forms of imposed sensation that usually take people trances to achieve. Even that which you perceive as autonomous is still part of your mind, and you are the filter that decides what is valuable and what is not - You have control of those functions outside of your perception.

What guide are we discussing?

Honestly it doesn't feel that way to me. I feel like a machine acting out automated functions using sensory input and a working memory roster as cogs.

2:55 AM

Maybe a bit more general than a guide now...

I completely misread that statement anywho. But yes we should probably be in tulpa questions or discussion.

2:58 AM

Or off-topic ones if you prefer, but I'd consider this tulpa-related. Discerning what thoughts are what is a key thing in the 'mancy.

I've had a dream with a desperate lady's voice encouraging me to force

3:00 AM

Should probably do that for a while cya

Logic

I've just started noticing that my thoughts seem as though they are being determined by an unconscious part of my mind

@_Dan - jump I have found that human bodies do not move through thought, rather through instinct.

Theres no difference tbqh (edited)